Actually, I don't.
I just know that somebody's gonna' start reading this post and immediately jump to that conclusion. But you shouldn't.
I like him. He's good. Great guitar player, fantastic band behind him, good songwriter...trendy as all getout.
But I am going to use him as an example.
I have to say that I'm really interested in the fact that Crowder won our little poll.
Here's why:
I talk about this over here, but I'll be honest - the survey is what got me thinking about it.
I think we as worship leaders do a really poor job of distinguishing between what we think is cool and what is actually beneficial to our congregations. (This is where having a very small readership helps...I know most everybody who voted. And where they go to church.)
When I see that the majority of you picked Crowder as the dream "guest leader," all these questions pop into my head.
1. Could your sound system handle Crowder's setup?
2. Do you have room on your stage for a DJ table?
3. Would they know "O Praise Him" or "Here Is Our King?" Would they know any Crowder tunes? Would they dig "Undignified" or "I Saw The Light?"
You see, while I like Crowder and I'd love to go see him play somewhere, I don't think he's the best fit for my church. I don't know that they'd "get it." Sure, our students would go nuts, but the whole church? Probably not so much.
Maybe I'm wrong and the people who voted are strangers to me who attend churches with which I am not familiar. Or maybe the voters are not worship leaders, and therefore not necessarily typically thinking of the church in a pastoral mindset.
But if not, let me say this: as worship leaders, we've got to balance this sort of stuff out. When somebody asks me who I'd want guest-leading, I don't need to pick the guy I think is coolest...I don't necessarily need to pick the guy that I think writes the most amazing songs.
I need to pick a guy that my church will dig; I need to pick a guy who can stretch us a little bit; I need to pick a guy who I can trust with my service.
I like to listen to Crowder live at Passion...but my church wouldn't be that. Would yours?
From my experience, I think probably the most congregationally friendly of our poll would have to be Baloche, Aaron Keyes or Lincoln Brewster. (Yes, yes...I know he wails, but if you watch him live, he's pretty great at engaging various congregations.)
So, I'm wondering...did you pick somebody 'cause they're cool-to-you or because they'd be good-for-your-people?
I'd love to know your thoughts on this, gang. If you think I'm off the mark, let me know. If you get what I'm saying or want to add something to the mix, please jump in there!
7/1/08
I HATE CROWDER
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21 comments:
I ran into this a year or so ago with my church. I realized that I was trying to do things (events, promotion, etc) according to what I had experienced or thought was cool.
Bad idea. It didn't work.
So now I try to focus more on what my church will benefit from (and at times that kills me because I so want to do something else)!
I am not a worship leader ... so I prolly voted on coolness ...
Although I do not remember who I voted for on that particular day ...
Do you think people's votes would change from day to day, depending on the "mood" they are in ?
DWC
That's what I'm saying, DWC...
I know where you go to church and I'm willing to bet that not may of the dudes on that list would work at your church.
I'm not trying to hate - I just think the worship music industry is really messing up our perspective what being and leading the church is all about.
The poll has been fixed!!! I am not a Worship Leader as you know and I'm afraid my vote may have skewed your results. I voted as a person who would be worshiping and the guest leader I would want to come lead.
You make a great point Todd about the reason behind your vote whoever it may be. It's a question I find myself constantly asking regarding anything and everything we do in church. Is this for me? Is this for these 10 people? Is this for the body? I also believe there's a line in leadership where this has to be crossed sometimes when the RIGHT choice may not be the majority choice.
I actually pulled up your blog to show my wife yesterday. Standing over the computer screen in her David Crowder shirt while I'm listening to Crowder we see the title of the latest blog. "I HATE CROWDER" It's ok though. I saw on his website he had a blog that said, "I HATE TODD" with a picture of you with a red x over your face. Kinda weird huh? Actually that's not true. She wore the shirt two days ago and I wasn't listening to music.
Love your blog keep up the good work!
The question...
If you could have a "famous" worship leader guest lead at your church, who would it be?
My heart started pounding heavily when I saw the title of your post.. and I just said that I listen to your CD almost daily..might be time to put Remedy back in...
My church would not only know "O Praise Him" and "Here is our King" but they would know "Rain Down" and "Surely we can change" along with "All Creatures" (or all critters as Donna likes to call it), Glory of it All, and Only You.
And...as I would think any guest worship leader would do I guess that I would think that that incoming guest worship leader would have a conversation with me about my congregation..what they know, how the flow of the service would go, the fact that yes we do have communion every week and we do have an altar call every week. That even though I haven't done "O for a thousand tongues" my congregation would know that too.
No we wouldn't have the electronics or sound system to handle all of his "stuff" and I think that is where the kick is coming in...
Maybe it's a "B" Collision set up as opposed to an "A" Collision.
I'm thinking he could handle a pretty cool acoustic set if we had one plug..
I doubt my church's chancel has everything in would need to handle the TWB much less DC*B but again.. that would be a part of the conversation..
Do I think he is cool..I do I do I do believe he's cool.
Was it a hard choice? Yes..but I guess his music has been speaking to me more than others lately because he does seem to be addressing the social justice aspect of Christianity not just the "I'm saved, I love God and God loves me" stuff...
Remedy
Surely we can change
Both have been done for communion or an invitation.
My goodness.. I have a headache....
Tomlin was 2nd choice..very close..
I can't think anymore..
I need A Beautiful Collision...Thank you God for your Revolutionary Love (oh yeah.. my congreation knows that too)
I guess the worship music industry has messed up my church...
Oh..and I'm sure you did this just for me too..you dog..
Artie, I am by no means an insider, but I'd bet you all the money in my bank account that the majority of "famous" traveling worship leaders DON'T have those sorts of conversations regarding what the crowd knows (Not in my experience thus far...)
But you know, if your church would dig it and the band would modify their setup to do it, more power to ya!
And, sadly, I didn't do this whole thing just for you, Artie. I ain't that clever.
Thanks for the comment - good stuff!
Todd...i know most "Famous" worship leaders might not do this...but apparently you don't know much about Crowder...he's quite intelligent...very intelligent. So, I think that Crowder could play about any venue and do just fine...and that the any church would do just fine...but that's just my take on Crowder...but I do however reside from Waco, TX where he's from and have seen how he interacts with people...
Every worship leader has their own "touch" and style to the way they play. Chris Tomlin is going to be different from say Third Day, and Crowder is going to be different from both of them. Each has their type of music they play, and you are never going to make a congregation of mixed ages totally satisfied with worship. Each age group has their own style that reaches to them the most. You aren't going to see many elderly rockin' out to techno rock, but you also wont see many youth singing loud to traditional hymns. I would have voted for Crowder, because his style reaches out to me the most. Like I said, everyone in a congregation has their own style of worship they like, and to pick one worship leader to satisfy everyone's preference would be nearly impossible.
i found this post because i google, "hate", "crowder", "i", most every morning when i get up. that is, unless i don't have internet. or if i'm feeling particularly fragile. if that's the case i usually wait until early afternoon, which is what was necessary today.
now, i didn't vote. i didn't see it in time. but if i had, i'd have most definitely voted for me. for one, tomlin is too short. our people wouldn't except such impaired height. but also my vote would have been based on coolness. i'm cool, and so, that would have factored in to my voting. the problem is, the people of my church don't really think i'm that cool. sure, they like me and think i'm swell, but cool? no. but i'd still vote for me. mostly because i live life with these people and i think relationship trumps everything else.
on another note, at least in our case, we are very conscious of the people that we find ourselves in front of. i believe our role is to allow those we have been given to lead the ability to articulate their faith through music. if the songs we choose and the way we carry them do not permit and inspire this then we have failed. and i can't fathom entering a community without knowing what commonality is held and what role in the service is expected from us. as for sound requirements, we often find ourselves doing stripped down sets at our church, especially in the summertime, for various technical and nontechnical reason and i'm certain all of those on your list could function with whatever was available. it would be less a norm than an exception that a church would have all the things required for us to function to our fullest technical potential, but i also think it would be exceptionally rare that this would be necessary for us to lead effectively. i suspect we'd be more effective in most sunday morning settings if required by technical accommodation to peel back things a bit.
i must say i like the thought that is provoked here though and it has lead me to conclude the following more firmly: if you had asked me to vote on your church, rather than mine, i'd vote for you. you are better in that position than me or mr tomlin, or any of the others listed hands down. you live with these people. you share life with these people. sure it would be pretty cool to have tomlin stop in, and i'm sure he'd do a fantastic job, but what would that truly add to your community other than a lovely service? long term, not much more than the memory of a pleasant bit of singing i suspect. nope, when it comes to community, it is relationship, shared life, that is the deal.
my two cents any way.
thanks for adding to my manic paranoia surrounding my self-worth in direct relation to unanimous adoration and acceptance.
Wow! Thanks for stopping by! And if it's really David, I'm even more honored!
You make some great points...glad to have you in our dialogue. Hope you keep coming around.
Oh...and people in my church don't think I'm that cool, either.
I can't seem to fix that.
Maybe it plagues us all.
I think the issue to address is not which "famous worship leader" one would like to have at one's Church, but rather the very idea of "famous worship leaders" in general.
I believe if you go here..
http://www.xanga.com/emprise34/
you might see why he stopped by..
Look under the chartboard. Just trying to help you up your readership...
man...
I think what David said is absolutely correct - you didn't even think about the fact that Worship leaders don't have to be their record -
You're not always your record - you should have extended the same openness to Crowder that you would expect from anyone else when they consider you to come and lead worship
Also...
a little too "high and mighty" assuming that others wouldn't know what they are talking about when you ask them to vote on an issue like that -
I apologize if I didn't express courtesy or openness to David Crowder and band...it certainly wasn't my intention and if it came across that way, I'm really sorry.
And I haven't said anything remotely close to "they don't know what they're talking about."
You're absolutely right that David some great things!
Thanks for the comment.
I have to say this here and now... I did not put the link to your blog on crowder's site to try and bring him in or cause and anger or throw any stones....
1. I thought what we had going on was a very good discussion and others who feel passionatly about worship music and for that matter God, would enjoy the discussion. There would be a certain group in that community that could bring in a different point of view..and I think that happened.
2. I really thought that it would bring some other interesting folks in to readership of this blog. I think that we have great discussions and that some folks might come for the title but stay for the conversation.
Todd, weren't you using the title of this blog for the same reason? Illicit a visceral response and create conversation? I know Todd wasn't doing this to throw any stones at DC*B..it was to have us discuss our choices and why they were made.
Please know I didn't do what I did to get Todd in hot water with Crowder.. I think his voice was awesome in this discussion..I think it also opned our eyes to David's heart a little too. Pretty cool. How often will we get an opportunity like that?
Very good blog.. created very good conversation and I'm glad it was done.
I actually didn't use the title to ilicit anything.
As I was writing, I kept thinking, "People are going to think I hate Crowder...people are going to think I hate Crowder...people are going to think I hate Crowder."
Which, of course, I don't. So I thought I might as well put it out there so I could kill it as soon as possible. (That didn't work very well...)
You're exactly right - there has been some great discussion here. What's most frustrating is that this post wasn't even about Crowder. It was about US.
It was about what motivates us as worship leaders and how we tend to focus way too much on what we like and enjoy. (I know this because I do it...a whole lot.)
So I'm answering after David, but still -
I just found this today so apparently I missed out on the voting, but, yes, I would vote for him to lead worship at my church. For one thing, he leads worship at his own church! Our church would be thrilled for him to sing "Here is Our King" and would sing along with him because we sing it without him. And although we probably couldn't handle his big concert equipment, I'm sure we could handle what he would deem appropriate for Sunday morning worship...
And because of reading his comments on this subject, I'm an even bigger fan!
Speaking of Lincoln Brewster... (oh, wait...we were speaking of Crowder weren't we?) I'm at the Nat'l Worship Leader's Conf in Austin, TX and sat in on Lincoln's session yesterday on "Transitioning Worship". He pointed out several times that we need to "do what's best for the church" and not what we think is cool. He said if his pastor asked him to wear a suit and sing hymns, he'd do it, if that's what was best for the church (he clarified that they value reaching the younger generation, so they ROCK on Sundays).
A year ago, or so our youth minister kept bugging me to do "Marvelous Light" on Sunday mornings. I like the song, but all I could think was "The majority of people in our services aren't going to 'get' that song." But I also struggle with keeping our students engaged in worship as well. We have fairly progressive worship for a Southern Baptist Church (Baloche, Tomlin, Tommy Walker, some Brewster) but it's not as progressive as what our students are listening to (Crowder, Charlie Hall, Hillsong United). It's a delicate balance.
Thanks for the post! Good discussion.
Thanks for stopping by, Ray!
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